Minutes

20 September 2001

Minutes of the meeting of the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee held at the Warwick Park School, Peckham Road, London, SE15.

Present

Members

R. David Muir (Chair)
Cindy Butts (Deputy Chair)
Abdal Ullah (Deputy Chair)
Jennifer Jones
Nicholas Long
Cecile Lothian
Angela Slaven

Also present: Peter Herbert (Deputy Chair, MPA).

MPA staff

Catherine Crawford (Clerk)
Julia Smith (Policy Officer, CDO)
John Crompton (Secretariat)

MPS staff

Michael Todd (Assistant Commissioner)
Rod Jarman (Borough Commander, Southwark)
Supt. Collette Paul

In addition approximately sixty members of the press/public and other Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA)/Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) staff were present.

At the beginning of the meeting the Committee and all others present stood in silence in respect to the victims of the terrorist attacks which had taken place in the United States on 11 September.

Part 1

133. Apologies

(Agenda item 1)

An apology for absence was received from Jennette Arnold.

134. Minutes of the meeting held on 26 June 2001

(Agenda item 2)

Cecile Lothian asked that minute 3 be amended to reflect the fact that it was Angela Slaven who had visited trainee police officers in Lewisham.

Subject thereto, the minutes of the meeting held on the 26 June 2001 were agreed and signed as a correct record.

20. Chair and link members update

(Agenda item 3)

The Chair reported on several current issues relating to the work of the Committee. These had included meetings relating to the shooting of Derek Bennett in Brixton

Cecile Lothian reported that she had attended an Independent Custody Visiting conference in Birmingham.

Abdal Ullah reported that in the aftermath of the events in the USA on 11 September he had held meetings with a number of Muslim organisations.

Resolved: That the information be noted.

21. Progress report on CDO Performance sub-group

(Agenda item 4)

Members received a report to update them about the activities of the CDO performance Sub-Group. Discussions so far have centred on the MPS Fair practice group, Stop and Search and Hate Crime.

Resolved- That the report be noted.

22. Policing priorities consultation update

(Agenda item 5)

The MPA and MPS have conducted a limited consultation exercise with Londoners on policing priorities which had been possible in the curtailed timetable. The Committee was asked to note the findings.

The Chair said that the meeting with church leaders referred to in paragraph 7 had been in Lambeth and not Southwark as shown.

Resolved-

the consultation which has been carried out be noted.
the Chair discusses representation on the Planning Panel with the Chair of the Panel and that in the meantime Nicholas Long will continue to represent the views of the Committee on the Panel.
it be noted that that there are potential differences in the emerging priorities identified for the policing priorities and the crime and disorder partnerships,

23. Progress report on the GLA Best Value Review of Equalities

(Agenda item 6)

The Greater London Authority and its functional bodies have set up a best value review of equalities has been set up. A report was submitted which sets out details of the scope of the review and the process for reporting progress as the review proceeds.

Resolved: That

the report be noted.
Cecile Lothian be the lead member.
further progress and updates be remitted to the Committee and the Best Value Programme Board.
the process outlined in the report for informing the Finance, Planning and Best Value Committee about the progress and outcome of the Review be agreed.

24. Independent custody visiting

(Agenda item 7)

Members received a received a report which summarised the outcome of consultation that had been undertaken with Independent Custody Visitors .

Cecile Lothian, the lead member for Independent Custody Visiting, referred to the fact that Floyd Millen, the ICV policy officer, was leaving the MPA at the end of the month to take up a new appointment. The Committee joined her in wishing Floyd well in his new appointment.

Resolved - That the report be noted.

25. MPS diversity strategy

(Agenda item 8)

Earlier this year the second stage of the MPS Diversity Strategy "Protect and Respect – everybody benefits" was launched. This paper provides a progress report on the strategy.

Assistant Commissioner Mike Todd explained that the educational establishment referred to in the final bullet point of paragraph was the Royal Holloway College.

Angela Slaven reported that three MPA Members had attended a recent Gender Conference in Birmingham. There did not appear to be anything in the action plan specifically on gender.

Assistant Commissioner Todd said that something would be added on this point and the emphasis in this area had changed to fairness.

Cindy Butts felt that the opportunity could have been taken to include in the report examples of the progress being made at borough level.

Resolved - That the report be noted.

26. Deaths in custody

(Agenda item 9)

A report was submitted which outlined how the MPS responds to and investigates deaths in police custody.

The Clerk reported that the Authority had discussed deaths in custody at its meeting earlier in the day. Four areas of work had been commissioned to assist the Authority in its scrutiny of the procedures involved:

Several Members felt that the report did not address all the areas which were of concern to the Committee. In this context, it was noted that a report on the subject was due to be submitted to the Professional Standards and Performance Monitoring Committee at its meeting on 11 October. The Committee asked to receive the report going to the PSPM Committee at its next meeting.

Peter Herbert referred to the fact that it was highly unusual for a police officer ever to be prosecuted in connection with a death in custody and said his personal view was that the MPA should insist on a public inquiry being set up into this issue.

Resolved- That the report be noted and a further report be submitted to the next meeting.

27. Presentation on research into youth crime

(Agenda item 10)

Robert Coomber the Chief Executive of Southwark Council and Rod Jarman the Borough Commander gave a presentation on their research into youth crime in the borough.

28. Questions and comments from the public

(Agenda item 11)

These are contained in appendix 1

The meeting finished at 8.35 p.m.

Appendix 1

A. Comments and questions on business discussed

Deaths in custody

Lee Jasper, the Mayor's Special Adviser, said that action on deaths in custody had been a manifesto commitment by the Mayor and he was interested to learn of the MPA initiatives in this field albeit there had been very little consultation prior to the announcement. He asked when there would be a response to the Mayor's request for a completely independent inquiry.

The Chair of the Southwark PCCG said she wished to make it clear that the PCCG was seeking a public inquiry into deaths in custody.

A speaker referred to Paragraph 13 of the report which refers to action which the Director of Professional Standards could take to suspend officers involved in a death whilst in police custody. He said that in Lambeth there is a body of evidence which suggested that two officers should have been suspended on the grounds of public confidence in the police.

A speaker sought clarification on the pilot scheme at Charing Cross police station which was referred to in paragraph 16 of the report on death in custody. The nurses there are under the impression that the pilot will end in December when the funding ceases. This would be a shame not least because as the pilot was late in starting it would not have run for its full year.

In reply, Assistant Commissioner Mike Todd confirmed that there was sufficient funding for the pilot to run for its full 12 month term. It would then be evaluated.

Youth crime

A speaker said that it was very disappointing to see so few young people at this meeting especially when items concerning young people are being discussed.

Abdal Ullah agreed that it was disappointing to see so few young people and referred to the general difficulties in engaging young people.

Simon Hughes MP referred to the inadequacies of youth provision and spoke of the long term problems which could be caused by bullying. Evidence showed that some children being bullied simply stopped attending school. They were thus ill-equipped to contribute to society in adulthood and it was perhaps not surprising that they often fell into a cycle of anti social behaviour and criminality Those carrying out the bullying behaviour often had problems around low self esteem which again were perpetuated into adulthood. It was therefore very important to address and confront bullying at an early stage.

A representative of the Black Police Association said he was surprised to note that the presentation did not appear to include anything specifically on capacity building in young people. He felt that young people had to be given the power to believe that they could change learnt behaviour patterns

B Questions on other issues

Can I preface my remarks by congratulating the Authority on providing an induction loop system at this meeting which has enabled me to follow the proceedings. My main point is to ask what is being done to satisfy the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Act for example when interviews take place at police stations

Nicholas Long explained that he was the Chair of the Estates Sub-Committee and said that the need to comply with this Act was very high in the Sub-Committee's priorities. The Chair of the Authority had asked him and Jennette Arnold, the Vice-Chair of the Estates Sub-Committee, to report to him by the end of the year.

Why, when there is so much talk of the problems of street crime, am I hearing rumours that there will be a 10% reduction in the number of police officers in Southwark?
Two local police stations were closed without consultation. Can the police not talk to the local communities to see whether there are ways in which this could be avoided - for example, by using volunteers?.

The Borough Commander said that both of the police stations referred to had been closed before the creation of the MPA. He was looking at alternative ways of being able to provide some sort of police office in the community.

Why is there a reluctance on behalf of the MPA to circulate certain documents? For example, the report on the outcome of the review of Resource Allocation Formula and the diversity strategy which is referred to in the papers for tonight's meeting.

The Clerk explained that it had been decided not to include the diversity document with the papers for the meeting in view of its size. She would be pleased to let the questioner have a copy. The RAF findings were still subject to consultation before the report was published.

What positive benefits has the MPA brought to policing in London?

Cecile Lothian said that meetings such at that being held tonight where people could raise matters of concern directly with members of the Authority and with senior police officers were an example of a change which had been made. She also explained that membership of the Authority was not "closed". There were several Independent members and these positions were open to anyone to apply for.

Peter Herbert cited several areas where the MPA was trying to make a change such as addressing the disproportionality in the stop and search figures and issues around death in custody.

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	Page summary This resource is from the Committees section. These are the minutes of the 20 Sep 01 meeting of the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee. Sections available here: Minutes Present Part 1 133. Apologies 134. Minutes of the meeting held on 26 June 2001 20. Chair and link members update 21. Progress report on CDO Performance sub-group 22. Policing priorities consultation update 23. Progress report on the GLA Best Value Review of Equalities 24. Independent custody visiting 25. MPS diversity strategy 26. Deaths in custody 27. Presentation on research into youth crime 28. Questions and comments from the public Appendix 1 Content Minutes 20 September 2001 Minutes of the meeting of the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee held at the Warwick Park School, Peckham Road, London, SE15. Present Members R. David Muir (Chair) Cindy Butts (Deputy Chair) Abdal Ullah (Deputy Chair) Jennifer Jones Nicholas Long Cecile Lothian Angela Slaven Also present: Peter Herbert (Deputy Chair, MPA). MPA staff Catherine Crawford (Clerk) Julia Smith (Policy Officer, CDO) John Crompton (Secretariat) MPS staff Michael Todd (Assistant Commissioner) Rod Jarman (Borough Commander, Southwark) Supt. Collette Paul In addition approximately sixty members of the press/public and other Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA)/Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) staff were present. At the beginning of the meeting the Committee and all others present stood in silence in respect to the victims of the terrorist attacks which had taken place in the United States on 11 September. Part 1 133. Apologies (Agenda item 1) An apology for absence was received from Jennette Arnold. 134. Minutes of the meeting held on 26 June 2001 (Agenda item 2) Cecile Lothian asked that minute 3 be amended to reflect the fact that it was Angela Slaven who had visited trainee police officers in Lewisham. Subject thereto, the minutes of the meeting held on the 26 June 2001 were agreed and signed as a correct record. 20. Chair and link members update (Agenda item 3) The Chair reported on several current issues relating to the work of the Committee. These had included meetings relating to the shooting of Derek Bennett in Brixton Cecile Lothian reported that she had attended an Independent Custody Visiting conference in Birmingham. Abdal Ullah reported that in the aftermath of the events in the USA on 11 September he had held meetings with a number of Muslim organisations. Resolved: That the information be noted. 21. Progress report on CDO Performance sub-group (Agenda item 4) Members received a report to update them about the activities of the CDO performance Sub-Group. Discussions so far have centred on the MPS Fair practice group, Stop and Search and Hate Crime. Resolved- That the report be noted. 22. Policing priorities consultation update (Agenda item 5) The MPA and MPS have conducted a limited consultation exercise with Londoners on policing priorities which had been possible in the curtailed timetable. The Committee was asked to note the findings. The Chair said that the meeting with church leaders referred to in paragraph 7 had been in Lambeth and not Southwark as shown. Resolved- the consultation which has been carried out be noted. the Chair discusses representation on the Planning Panel with the Chair of the Panel and that in the meantime Nicholas Long will continue to represent the views of the Committee on the Panel. it be noted that that there are potential differences in the emerging priorities identified for the policing priorities and the crime and disorder partnerships, 23. Progress report on the GLA Best Value Review of Equalities (Agenda item 6) The Greater London Authority and its functional bodies have set up a best value review of equalities has been set up. A report was submitted which sets out details of the scope of the review and the process for reporting progress as the review proceeds. Resolved: That the report be noted. Cecile Lothian be the lead member. further progress and updates be remitted to the Committee and the Best Value Programme Board. the process outlined in the report for informing the Finance, Planning and Best Value Committee about the progress and outcome of the Review be agreed. 24. Independent custody visiting (Agenda item 7) Members received a received a report which summarised the outcome of consultation that had been undertaken with Independent Custody Visitors . Cecile Lothian, the lead member for Independent Custody Visiting, referred to the fact that Floyd Millen, the ICV policy officer, was leaving the MPA at the end of the month to take up a new appointment. The Committee joined her in wishing Floyd well in his new appointment. Resolved - That the report be noted. 25. MPS diversity strategy (Agenda item 8) Earlier this year the second stage of the MPS Diversity Strategy "Protect and Respect – everybody benefits" was launched. This paper provides a progress report on the strategy. Assistant Commissioner Mike Todd explained that the educational establishment referred to in the final bullet point of paragraph was the Royal Holloway College. Angela Slaven reported that three MPA Members had attended a recent Gender Conference in Birmingham. There did not appear to be anything in the action plan specifically on gender. Assistant Commissioner Todd said that something would be added on this point and the emphasis in this area had changed to fairness. Cindy Butts felt that the opportunity could have been taken to include in the report examples of the progress being made at borough level. Resolved - That the report be noted. 26. Deaths in custody (Agenda item 9) A report was submitted which outlined how the MPS responds to and investigates deaths in police custody. The Clerk reported that the Authority had discussed deaths in custody at its meeting earlier in the day. Four areas of work had been commissioned to assist the Authority in its scrutiny of the procedures involved: Several Members felt that the report did not address all the areas which were of concern to the Committee. In this context, it was noted that a report on the subject was due to be submitted to the Professional Standards and Performance Monitoring Committee at its meeting on 11 October. The Committee asked to receive the report going to the PSPM Committee at its next meeting. Peter Herbert referred to the fact that it was highly unusual for a police officer ever to be prosecuted in connection with a death in custody and said his personal view was that the MPA should insist on a public inquiry being set up into this issue. Resolved- That the report be noted and a further report be submitted to the next meeting. 27. Presentation on research into youth crime (Agenda item 10) Robert Coomber the Chief Executive of Southwark Council and Rod Jarman the Borough Commander gave a presentation on their research into youth crime in the borough. 28. Questions and comments from the public (Agenda item 11) These are contained in appendix 1 The meeting finished at 8.35 p.m. Appendix 1 A. Comments and questions on business discussed Deaths in custody Lee Jasper, the Mayor's Special Adviser, said that action on deaths in custody had been a manifesto commitment by the Mayor and he was interested to learn of the MPA initiatives in this field albeit there had been very little consultation prior to the announcement. He asked when there would be a response to the Mayor's request for a completely independent inquiry. The Chair of the Southwark PCCG said she wished to make it clear that the PCCG was seeking a public inquiry into deaths in custody. A speaker referred to Paragraph 13 of the report which refers to action which the Director of Professional Standards could take to suspend officers involved in a death whilst in police custody. He said that in Lambeth there is a body of evidence which suggested that two officers should have been suspended on the grounds of public confidence in the police. A speaker sought clarification on the pilot scheme at Charing Cross police station which was referred to in paragraph 16 of the report on death in custody. The nurses there are under the impression that the pilot will end in December when the funding ceases. This would be a shame not least because as the pilot was late in starting it would not have run for its full year. In reply, Assistant Commissioner Mike Todd confirmed that there was sufficient funding for the pilot to run for its full 12 month term. It would then be evaluated. Youth crime A speaker said that it was very disappointing to see so few young people at this meeting especially when items concerning young people are being discussed. Abdal Ullah agreed that it was disappointing to see so few young people and referred to the general difficulties in engaging young people. Simon Hughes MP referred to the inadequacies of youth provision and spoke of the long term problems which could be caused by bullying. Evidence showed that some children being bullied simply stopped attending school. They were thus ill-equipped to contribute to society in adulthood and it was perhaps not surprising that they often fell into a cycle of anti social behaviour and criminality Those carrying out the bullying behaviour often had problems around low self esteem which again were perpetuated into adulthood. It was therefore very important to address and confront bullying at an early stage. A representative of the Black Police Association said he was surprised to note that the presentation did not appear to include anything specifically on capacity building in young people. He felt that young people had to be given the power to believe that they could change learnt behaviour patterns B Questions on other issues Can I preface my remarks by congratulating the Authority on providing an induction loop system at this meeting which has enabled me to follow the proceedings. My main point is to ask what is being done to satisfy the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Act for example when interviews take place at police stations Nicholas Long explained that he was the Chair of the Estates Sub-Committee and said that the need to comply with this Act was very high in the Sub-Committee's priorities. The Chair of the Authority had asked him and Jennette Arnold, the Vice-Chair of the Estates Sub-Committee, to report to him by the end of the year. Why, when there is so much talk of the problems of street crime, am I hearing rumours that there will be a 10% reduction in the number of police officers in Southwark? Two local police stations were closed without consultation. Can the police not talk to the local communities to see whether there are ways in which this could be avoided - for example, by using volunteers?. The Borough Commander said that both of the police stations referred to had been closed before the creation of the MPA. He was looking at alternative ways of being able to provide some sort of police office in the community. Why is there a reluctance on behalf of the MPA to circulate certain documents? For example, the report on the outcome of the review of Resource Allocation Formula and the diversity strategy which is referred to in the papers for tonight's meeting. The Clerk explained that it had been decided not to include the diversity document with the papers for the meeting in view of its size. She would be pleased to let the questioner have a copy. The RAF findings were still subject to consultation before the report was published. What positive benefits has the MPA brought to policing in London? Cecile Lothian said that meetings such at that being held tonight where people could raise matters of concern directly with members of the Authority and with senior police officers were an example of a change which had been made. She also explained that membership of the Authority was not "closed". There were several Independent members and these positions were open to anyone to apply for. Peter Herbert cited several areas where the MPA was trying to make a change such as addressing the disproportionality in the stop and search figures and issues around death in custody.

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