Important note: This is an archive of the website that was formerly at www.morrisinquiry.gov.uk. It is being hosted on the MPA website for archival purposes only and may contain out-of-date information.

This resource is from the Transcripts section. This section contains a transcript of the public session with Mr M Nandha of the Metropolitan Police Hindu Association, on 7 April 2004.

Sections available here:

• Transcript of public session: Mr M Nandha of the Metropolitan Police Hindu Association
  • Questions by Sir William Morris
  • Questions by Miss Weekes
  • Questions by Sir Anthony Burden

This transcript is also available with original line and page numbering.

Transcript of public session: Mr M Nandha of the Metropolitan Police Hindu Association

Wednesday, 7 April 2004
4.15 pm

Sir William Morris: Mr Nandha, can I first of all say good afternoon and indeed welcome. Thank you so much for accepting our invitation to attend the Inquiry this afternoon to give us some evidence, and thank you for letting us have your written submission in advance. We found that extremely helpful.

I do appreciate that for some of our witnesses any process such as this may seem somewhat of a daunting task, so I thought it would be helpful if I just set out very briefly and informally how we propose to conduct the hearing this afternoon.

But first of all, let me introduce myself and the other members of my panel. My name is Sir Bill Morris, recently retired General Secretary of the Transport and General Workers Union. As you can see, there are two other members of the panel. On my right is Sir Anthony Burden, who recently retired as Chief Constable of the South Wales Constabulary, after a very long and distinguished career in the police service. On my left is Miss Anesta Weekes QC. Anesta is an eminent barrister who sits as a recorder and part-time chairperson of employment tribunals. She was also counsel to the Lawrence Inquiry.

Mr Nandha, as you know, we have been asked by the Metropolitan Police authority to conduct an independent inquiry into professional standards and employment matters in the Metropolitan Police Service. The focus that we take is in respect of the MPS as an organisation, and not the individuals who make up the MPS.

Our inquiry is inquisitorial, it is not adversarial in conduct or indeed character. That said, we are very keen nevertheless to enquire into the issues which are raised by our terms of reference, and to make appropriate recommendations for further good practice within the MPS.

To help us in our task, we are very keen to hear from every witness not just about what is wrong with the Met, but indeed what is right with it; but most importantly, we are looking for practical advice and suggestions and proposals on which we can make recommendation to make matters better.

For the record, let me say that a transcript is being taken, so that we have a very accurate and proper record of the evidence given by all our witnesses, and this will be posted on our website later today.

At the end of these introductory comments, I will lead on the questions to you, followed by my colleagues, first Miss Weekes, and then followed by Sir Anthony Burden, and I reserve for myself any supplementary questions that I might find necessary.

At the conclusion of our questions, I will offer you the opportunity to make a closing comment, if you so wish.

You very helpfully provided us with your written submission on behalf of your organisation, and as I have said, once you have given evidence, a copy will be on our website.

Your submission has set out information in the following areas: an introduction to your organisation, your comments on a particular case, and, of course, you have addressed the issue of consultation.

We would like to ask questions on these and other matters, and range over the broad issues which come within the scope of our terms of reference.

But before we start the questioning, for the benefit of the transcript, I wonder whether I could ask you to formally introduce yourself to the Inquiry.

Mr Nandha: Thank you. My name is Mahesh Nandha, I am the chair of the Metropolitan Police Hindu Association. I am also a police constable based at Harrow police station.

Sir William Morris: Thank you very much indeed.

Questions by Sir William Morris

Sir William Morris: As part of our work, we are required to look at some individual cases, but let me for the record say that we will not be revisiting the past, only insofar as it might inform the future, and to identify any lessons that need to be learnt.

In your submission, you have at some length identified one particular case, but for the record and for your information, I think it is important for me to state as follows – and I quote this statement: I know that you are familiar with the terms of reference of the Inquiry. As you are aware, one aspect of our task is to examine the lessons to be learnt from high-profile cases. These cases, by definition, relate to individuals and will be dealt with in the same way as the submissions we have received from other individuals.

We have not yet reached that part of our work, and therefore, today, we will not be asking questions about any of the high-profile cases that we will consider. We will, of course, notify the parties concerned when we reach that stage of the Inquiry, and we may seek your assistance at that point.

Turning to the questions that I wish to start with, your organisation is one of some 14 staff support associations within the Metropolitan Police Service, and we recognise that it is an organisation which looks after its members with their needs as it sees it, but we are also very mindful that there is a long-established trade union within the Metropolitan Police Service and other police services; that is the Federation.

Could you tell us in your own words: why do you think that with the long-established tradition of the Federation, the Police Federation, it is still nevertheless necessary to have an association such as yours? What is your association providing which could not have been provided by the Federation?

Mr Nandha: I do not think we are – we would like to think that we work alongside the Federation, rather than being separate. When we were formed in 2002, we were formed with the intention of not replacing for our members the Federation, but to assist them in finding a way forward if they have got any problems within their workplace, with regards to any disciplinary matters or issues like that, or issues relating to their faith or religion, where we can assist the Federation in giving some information and progressing it forward.

We have had a number of chats, talks and meetings with the Federation to see how we can assist them, and we have – like we have said to them, if we do get any problems where we have our members who have got problems with either disciplinary or other matters, that we will speak to them, and also pass them on to people from the Federation who may be able to help.

Because when we set out, we thought that we do not want to get into any legal tanglings, things like that, we would leave it to the professionals, and the Federation have got the money, they have got the manpower and they have got the facilities to deal with those kind of situations.

So I think it is necessary in other aspects as well, where the Federation would not be – whereas we can get into the community, we can talk to the Hindu community about what we do, and also be a link between the Metropolitan Police Service and also the Hindu community, in bringing them together, at times of – you know, when there are problems and tension in the community. So it is actually a link as well as providing support for our members, so it is an all-round thing, basically.

I would like to see the association as a central point where the Met can contact us, we can contact the Federation, we can contact the community, and help each other that way.

Sir William Morris: So you see your group as complementary rather than competitive in terms of its relationship with the Fed?

Mr Nandha: That is right.

Sir William Morris: Is your association a member of the Samurai group?

Mr Nandha: It is, yes.

Sir William Morris: How is that working? Is it beneficial, is it addressing the issues?

Mr Nandha: I think it is. We are still new to the Samurai group. As I said, we were formed in December 2002, so we are just getting to grips with all the meetings that we have to attend, and I think it is beneficial, because we do work together. The time when the Black Police Association – you know, we drew from recruitment activities – although we were still trying to recruit people, and we went out into the press and said, "We are still going to recruit", internally, at the Samurai meetings, we were still friends, we were not arguing, we were still talking naturally. They had their point of view, we had our point of view, but we did not come to blows over it. They understood our position, we understood their position.

So I think it works quite well, not just in that matter, but in other matters where a particular association may be having problems which another association may be having problems with a similar thing for their staff, and once it is aired – not a particular incident, just the problems that they are facing – it can come up and the Samurai can fight as one organisation, rather than individuals going to senior officers and putting their points forward.

Sir William Morris: Yes. I am proceeding on the assumption that you have read our terms of reference and you have followed our work and its progress. With that in mind, and recognising the particular needs and concerns of your association, I wonder if you would mind setting out for us, in your own words, what you think your association's most important contribution to the Inquiry can be, based on your experience. What can it tell us that is so gripping that we would sort of find it absolutely compelling to make a recommendation about?

Mr Nandha: I think the one thing I would say, and this has been my experience, being at Harrow, we have had so much support from our senior management. When we thought of the idea of forming an association, we spoke to a few people, colleagues who have been friends, and they said, "Why do you want to break away, why do you want to cause divisions?" But from the outset, our senior management, from Chief Inspector upwards, was very – they backed up all the way.

And I think the other members, the other officers saw that, and I think they took that on board, and we have had no trouble at all from any of them for when we want to take time out to go to meetings or to go to job fairs where we represent the association, and I think that has been the driving force of my commitment to the association, and also to the MPS, because we have got so much backing from our senior management.

I think other – from speaking to other associations, they have not got such backing, and they do face problems from way up to way down, from constables, where if they are seen speaking on the phone, somebody takes minutes on how much they are devoting their time to the association, rather than doing their own work, and I think that is wrong.

I think there should be something coming down from – I know from commander level above, there is an emphasis that they are very supportive of the associations, but from chief superintendent, I think, downwards, there is a problem in some places, and I think that is the one key thing that I would like to put forward for you to make a recommendation, that all chief superintendents should be backing their associations, so that it gets fed down through the lines, and the problems that some of the associations face at the moment stop, basically.

Sir William Morris: Yes. Diversity is one of the flagship policies – it is the flagship policy which is intended to ensure that all employees within the MPS develop their potential and indeed create opportunities and make the work experience within the organisation a fulfilling and fair one.

Could you give us some examples of how the diversity policy, since it has been introduced, has benefitted your members?

Mr Nandha: I think it is a benefit in the sense that more people are aware – all the officers and also police staff are aware of all the diversity issues and what should be taken into consideration whilst they are working alongside Hindu members, and I think it has opened their eyes a bit.

But again, I go on to that point, my point of diversity training is good, as long as somebody wants to learn it. Because I have been on one diversity training day where a sergeant was totally dismissive of it, and, as a result, his constables that were directly under him also took that tone, and for the two days, they were totally dismissive of everything that they were being taught, and I think that is wrong.

I think leaders should take action in trying to make an example, of trying to learn new things, and I think constables will follow on suit, not just sergeant level but all levels, I think it will just filter down.

Sir William Morris: During the course of this current week, we have had evidence from representatives of the Sikh community, and the evidence was critical of the MPS' failure to embrace diversity in its total concept; for example, halal meals that were required were not available as a matter of course, you had to put your name up on a list, and that identified people as separate and different.

There were issues around whether people were allowed to have symbolic reference to their culture and religion, like the beards and the turbans issue, and there were issues around the showers. It is not that these were not available, but accessing these issues was difficult, to put it at its highest, and there was no universality of these provisions, they were not – you know, it was not a paradigm in terms of being freely available, and everybody taking it for granted.

Can I ask whether your members face any such issues about proper respect and provision for their religion as they practice it in the overall context? Do they have any of those issues?

Mr Nandha: I think with regards to food, when police officers go on aid, certainly, most Hindus are vegetarian, and they do have problems, because as you may know, we have to telephone a couple of days ahead, saying, "I want a vegetarian", or, "I want halal food", and that is a problem, I think, because police officers, if they are out on duty, they have not got time to make a phone call to say, "Can I please have a vegetarian meal for this day", and this is a problem.

I think they should keep provision for – I do not think it necessarily matters for vegetarian, because there is some vegetarian anyway kept, but I think it more refers to the Jewish and also the Muslim officers, who have to request it specifically, and I think it does cause problems.

Whereas food comes into it, we hired Simpson Hall in Hendon for a cultural event last year, and we were told that we could not bring our own food from the outside. I know there is issues around hygiene and things like that, but we were told we had to get their in-house cooking, Hendon's in-house cooking, and pay exorbitant prices for it. Now it was not the prices that we were worried about, it was the way the food was cooked, because, as I said, Hindus are normally vegetarian, they do not like cross-contamination of meat utensils used on vegetarian foods.

So we would like to see that we would be allowed to bring in outside caterers. They would be from recognised shops that hotels use, big hotels use, so it is not necessarily that we will cook it at home and then bring it in and then everyone gets sick, but I think that should be looked at as well. So it opens up – like, say, if we wanted to hire Simpson Hall again, it would be easier for us, and also it would bring in the community as well, because we would be asking the community to come in, and they would be going into police premises and seeing that the MPS is open and it is committed to diversity and they are letting us do this work.

Other instances – probably a positive comment I would like to make, one of our members at Hendon had trouble when he was going through his officer safety training. The Hindus and also the Sikhs, every August the sister gives the brother a thing called a rakhri, similar to this (indicates) and it is symbolic, it is not necessarily religious, but it is just a cultural thing, where the sister gives it to protect the brother, and the brother gives the sister money, or other gifts.

Sir William Morris: I like it!

Mr Nandha: And this particular officer had trouble when he went to officer safety training. He said that he would not like to take it off, because from his point of view, it had a religious meaning. Now they called us up, Hendon called me up, and I said, "Well, it depends on personal preference. If he thinks it is religious, it is religious, we would say it is up to the personal preference of how they take that symbolic thing to be".

He was told that he would be back-classed if he did not take it off, and he took it so seriously that he did not want to take it off that he actually did get back-classed, so he did an extra five weeks of training at Hendon.

Now as a result of that, we were not happy with that, but we could not do anything, because they had the health and safety on their side, with regards to if this gets caught whilst they are doing quick cuff training, somebody may injure themselves, so they had health and safety on their side.

So I think they won on that, he did get back-classed, but he did not have any problem with that. Because what we are meant to do is not take this off or cut it off, we are meant to either slip it off, if we want to take it off, or wait until it falls off, and it does fall off. So I think it worked out; he did an extra five weeks, and it fell off, so it did work out.

A couple of months later I got a call from a chief superintendent at territorial policing who was looking into the matter – I think he was made aware of a couple of times that these incidents happened, and he was looking for a way round it. So I informed him of, you know – that it is up to the personal preference, if they want to take it as religious or cultural. And he said there may be middle ground where we can come to, and what he suggested was that the officers wear sweat bands that would cover the actual string, which would make it better for the MPS and also for the officers concerned.

And I took that to be a positive way of the MPS looking at, you know: the problem is, what can we do, we cannot just hide away and say, "No, health and safety matter", but how can we work forward and deal with this situation? And it has worked. I think it is down in policy now, and I think that is something that possibly the Chief Superintendent has taken on board himself and thought, "No, I want to put this down as set in stone, so no Hindu or Sikh officers will have this problem in the future".

Sir William Morris: Just a final point: setting aside the circumstances where the MPS officers felt it was important for your association to be consulted to give some guidance about issues like you have just shared with us, in your submission you were critical of the consultation, you said that the consultation was inadequate. I am taking that to mean on wider policy areas.

Mr Nandha: That is right.

Sir William Morris: Could you expand on that, as to where the inadequacy has manifested itself, and, more importantly, what contribution can your association make to improve that situation?

Mr Nandha: It is the same with all the associations, I am sure you have heard it from the other – you know, the CPA, the Sikh Association, the Muslim Association. We get documents of policy when they say, "This has been drafted, please give your comments within seven days". And the documents are normally about 50 or 60 pages long, and it sometimes does not really concern us, they just want to – I feel they want to do it just so they can tick the box and say, "We have consulted these people".

What we used to do was not reply, you know, because we did not have the time to do it, because we had to do it as well as our own jobs in the MPS.

It came to a stage where we were getting two or three requests a week, and because we were not replying, they thought everything was okay. So what we have started to do now is just replying and saying, "Look, we have not got time to deal with these issues, please give us more time in future". I do not know why they leave it so late, it is possibly because they do not want to give us time to look through it properly, or if it is because, you know, they do not have time themselves, the Commissioner wants it straight away or something.

But we have been consulted from the start – and this is what I would like to say: if there is something that is going to be so important, we would like to be consulted from the start, and we have been on one critical issue, which was regarding a guide to religious premises, and that was a document drafted by a superintendent, Dave Tucker, who consulted us from even before he started it, he said, "This is what I want to do".

Basically it was after the mosque in Finchley was raided by police, and there was lessons to be learned, and it was not just for mosques, it was for temples, gurdwaras, any religious place, churches, and he wanted to draft a document which would be policy for police officers who wanted to do any raids in any religious places, what they would have to do.

We were consulted from the start, we gave our views, and we were consulted again after we gave our views, and I think that works quite well, and I think it is in policy now – I am sure it is in policy, because we got the finished draft at the end of last year, so I am sure it is set in policy now.

Also again the community and cultural resource unit, I know we were not consulted about that, because we were not formed when they were drafting that different department, but I know that the Muslim Police Association were consulted from the very start, and some of the other associations were as well, so I think there are some people out there who are consulting us in the right way, but others who are just doing it, I think, just to tick the boxes.

Sir William Morris: Well, thank you very much. That completes the questions that I wanted to put to you. I invite Miss Weekes straight away to ask you questions.

Questions by Miss Weekes

Miss Weekes: I am greatly heartened by your three examples of good management. You have said that senior management in your area, Harrow, are very supportive of your organisation, and you get time off to conduct your association work.

Mr Nandha: That is right.

Miss Weekes: The very good example of Superintendent Tucker approaching you right at the outset about entering religious premises; and the third is the middle way to deal with the gift of the band from a sister to a brother, or a brother to a sister, although I must say that is a great example of why it is good to be a woman.

But those three examples are clearly good examples of good management style. Now not all Hindus can go to Harrow, so what is a good way of importing what is clearly your experience of good examples of good management practice?

Mr Nandha: Well, that is a difficult one. I think at the moment, there is a problem of when somebody has been wanting to go for promotion, they have to show – or even a different role, they have to show that they have dealt with diversity, and they have embraced it, and they can work well with it. But I think there is a lot of problems when it comes to implementation, where it goes wrong, because they learn it for the board, but when they actually go and do it, they cannot do it, because they have not got the experience, or they do not want to do it.

I think it comes – the selection procedures are quite flawed in that sense, whereas they cannot actually get the person to actually tell them of their experiences of diversity, and also, you know, how can they tell if it was not read off a script? That is one of the main problems.

I think to try and get other senior officers to learn from Harrow's way, it is going to be difficult. I think one way forward is to actually get our chief superintendent to go and speak to his colleagues and say, "Look, this is the way forward, this is how I do it". We do not take too much time off from work, even though we get up to 20 hours a week to conduct our association business, we do not like to take all that time, so we do do some of the work in our own time as well, just to be fair.

Miss Weekes: To be fair.

Mr Nandha: That is right, yes. And I think Harrow has been fair on us, but it is difficult pressure, and I do not know the way forward, apart from my chief superintendent going and telling everyone what a good thing it is to have these staff associations, because we are not trying to divide the Metropolitan Police, we are trying to bring it closer together, and also teach some people along the way of what we are about, what we are doing.

Because I think there is a misconception from our white colleagues at least, who say that we are just getting the association, we are getting the money just because we are from visible ethnic minorities, and I think that is wrong. I think there is a need to go out there and show people that there are Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, black police officers and police staff as well in the Metropolitan Police Service, and we do all work – there are some problems, but we are working to combat them together rather than, you know, going out there and saying to everyone that the MPS is bad because they are not embracing us, they are not doing anything for us.

Miss Weekes: The other and perhaps final point on this issue, because it seems to be so important: your officers at Harrow, I suspect, may be good managers in other aspects. Could you just refer me to two other examples that also work – not just because you are being given time off to deal with your association issues, and they listen, but in terms of workplace conflicts. Are there other examples of good management skills?

Mr Nandha: I think there are. There is a number of – we have got about three chief inspectors now, and I have not come across any direct conflicts where I have been involved, but I suspect there are, you know, provisions in place to deal with them.

As far as I can tell from morale in Harrow, it is quite good, from all levels of staff, you know, and it goes back to the fact that the chief superintendent is one of the lads, if I can say that, because he can understand what the PC is going through. He is not a career – you know, he has got to where he is by doing what he enjoys, not because he wants to go and lead people in a way that he wants to go up the ranks even more, he wants to lead people in a way that he can work with everyone.

He has to make difficult decisions, but I think morale in Harrow is very good. I have not worked in other places, but from the stories I hear in other places, other boroughs, I can tell that our chief superintendent is one of the best.

Miss Weekes: Well, we are very grateful to have those good examples. Thank you.

Sir William Morris: Can I just hand you over to Sir Anthony Burden, who has one or two questions that he wants to put to you.

Questions by Sir Anthony Burden

Sir Anthony Burden: Thank you. Mr Nandha, Hendon has already been mentioned, but can I deal with it from a wider perspective, please, in your role as representing your association?

Have you any concerns about the culture which is currently in place at Hendon which may or may not display any sexist, racist or bullying tendencies that may have come to your notice by representations from young Hindu recruits whilst at Hendon?

Mr Nandha: I think there is an element of bullying from some staff at Hendon, but I do not think it is directly towards the Hindu staff or Hindu police officers, I think it is generally to everyone.

I think there is a problem culturally. I mean even when I was there, there was a problem with some police trainers who are constables thinking that they are above everyone else, and they can bully you into doing something, and I do not think that culture has changed, there are a few still at this moment who still carry on believing that they are above every other constable. And this is the constable trainers I am talking about; not the sergeants, the constable trainers.

I think that needs to be broken; I am not sure how it is going to be done, but there is a tendency of people resigning quite prematurely. In fact, minority ethnic groups resign – I know there is figures out there that say they are more likely to resign, but I know there is also white police officers who also resign.

Just looking at police notices, you see how many resign every month, it is quite astounding. I believe some of that is to do with workplace bullying.

Sir Anthony Burden: You mentioned the wearing of the rakhri, and the approach that came from the staff at Hendon. Issues like this surely are just common sense, are they not? I mean, they are not racial issues. People play rugby every Saturday afternoon who wear rings that cannot take them off, and those sort of issues are resolved quite simply, and there was a simple solution to the wearing of the rakhri.

Mr Nandha: That is right. I think some of the trainers at Hendon, the PT staff, the physical trainers, do not embrace or have not embraced diversity, because they are just – I am not saying they are just police staff, but they are police staff; I think police officers would have taken it differently, because there are some PT staff that are police officers.

But I think, yes, a common sense approach would have been – okay, I did not think there was any racial judgment in that case at all, I think it was just taken one step too far on health and safety grounds, but there are times when common sense would be beneficial, but not everyone has it.

Sir Anthony Burden: I am suggesting this, and you need not agree with me: it seems to me as though there needs to be a cultural adjustment generally at Hendon to recognise the diverse workforce that the organisation is looking to recruit. Another example given to us was the difficulty that Muslim officers, male and female, had in showering after physical exercise, showering together.

Surely this is just an issue of timetabling those events at the end of the day, so everyone can go and shower as they wish; I mean, I do not see that as rocket science.

Mr Nandha: No, exactly. It is just – I mean, this has been brought up to Commander Hussain a number of times about showering facilities, and also the fact that they spend a lot of money on doing up police stations, when a couple of years later, they just close down, where they just need to spend a small amount of money putting cubicles into the showers which may solve the problem.

But I know what you are saying, and where you are coming from. It would be common sense to try and put the timetable around, you know, such activities.

Sir Anthony Burden: My colleague just raises the point that you have mentioned Commander Hussain, the approach that was made; can I ask you, what was Commander Hussain's response, if any?

Mr Nandha: At the time when the Muslim Association brought it up at a Samurai meeting, I think he was going to look into it, but that was a few months ago, I think probably about six months ago. I do not think anything else has come out of it.

Sir Anthony Burden: We might ask him what the response is for you.

Mr Nandha: That is fine.

Sir Anthony Burden: These are, it seems, simplistic points, but the serious issue is, of course, when you are out there in your community struggling on behalf of the Metropolitan Police to recruit more Hindu officers, the negative messages coming out from members of the Hindu community that resign prematurely from Hendon is undoing everything that you are trying to achieve, is it not?

Mr Nandha: That is right, yes, it is. And it is a problem that all the associations are facing, and we do go out there, you know, with positive action meetings, open days, things like that, going in and telling the community, "It is a good job, at the end of the day, you are doing something for the community", but at the end of the day, if they go to Hendon and face problems ...

I would just like to make a point, my wife joined the police service a couple of years ago, first day at Hendon, on a Sunday when they go in, and she wanted to leave then, because of the first talk you got from the trainer saying, "You are rubbish, you think you are it, but you have not seen anything yet", and it was along those lines, where everyone was put down before they even started, and I think that was wrong, because she wanted to leave there and then, and I persuaded her to stay, I said, "It will get better, not everyone is like that person", but I think there are a lot more at Hendon who are like that, who want to take their position as constables as meaning they are higher than anyone else and they can do whatever they want, say whatever they want, without any repercussions.

Sir Anthony Burden: That is not a motivational technique used in the rest of the Metropolitan Police?

Mr Nandha: I do not think it is, no.

Sir Anthony Burden: Mr Nandha, thank you very much indeed.

Sir William Morris: Mr Nandha, let me also join in Sir Anthony's thanks on behalf of the panel. We have finished the questions that we had intended to ask you, but you will recall that in my opening statement, I said that I would offer you the opportunity to make a brief closing comment, if you so wished. If you do wish to make a brief closing comment, this is your moment.

Mr Nandha: Okay, thank you. Basically, there has been rumours going around recently that Hendon or Assistant Commissioner Hogan-Howe is looking into having an intake for purely visible ethnic minorities.

We raised our concerns when this was first pointed out last year, early last year, that we do not see this as being beneficial for anyone, not least the ethnic officers that would be going on that intake, because I do not think they would like to go on that, if they are just going to be all categorised as one group, saying, "You are going into this intake so we can raise the number of ethnic minorities in the police service in one go, just like that".

So I think if that is something they are looking into, that is going to have a negative impact on everyone; certainly the white police officers will see it as them being given a chance above everyone else, and the ethnic minorities will be thinking, "Why are we being targeted in this way? We do not want to go in an intake, we want to learn about everyone's faith, religion, background, regardless of colour", and putting them into one group will not do that, because they will be targeted by a lot of people, and I think that is wrong.

Sir William Morris: Thank you so much. I have for the record to just say to you, Mr Nandha, that as with all our witnesses, once we have heard from other witnesses, it may well be that we want to ask a few more questions of you, either in writing or to invite you back to one of these hearings.

If we do decide to do so, naturally, we will do it in a way that causes you and your organisation the least possible inconvenience.

But for the moment, all that remains for me to do is to thank you for your submission, thank you for your oral evidence this afternoon, and thank you and the organisation for the overall contribution that has been made to the Inquiry by yourselves.

Mr Nandha: Thank you.

Sir William Morris: Thank you very much indeed. Could I just for the benefit of the public say: ladies and gentlemen, the Inquiry will now stand adjourned for the Easter break. We will resume our hearings some time after the Easter holidays, but at present, the details have not yet been confirmed. It is our intention to ensure that we resume later in April, and the details of the resumption will be posted on our website during the course of next week. Thank you very much, we stand adjourned.

4.50 pm
(Hearing adjourned)

On this website:

• Evidence:  Mr M Nandha
  Evidence provided by and documents referred to by Mr M Nandha of the Metropolitan Police Hindu Association, in his appearance at the Inquiry.